tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post6138758481407127569..comments2024-03-28T11:30:20.005-05:00Comments on El Salvador Perspectives: Lead in the Place of the ChildTimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02452039674856298357noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-23215357835237289412007-09-22T01:03:00.000-05:002007-09-22T01:03:00.000-05:00The environmental judge is not an honor point, per...The environmental judge is not an honor point, personally. <BR/><BR/>What happens is that the law establishes it <BR/> then? <BR/><BR/>it is necessary to countermand that or to execute it. It is necessary to decide.<BR/><BR/>Instead of spending money in useless advisers, the civil process would be due to reform judicial: to return it fast por example. <BR/><BR/>My point it is:<BR/><BR/>that it exists justice (civil, criminal or wathever)<BR/><BR/>and that it.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you (EV), about some things that you said about judicial sistem (some...).ixquic*https://www.blogger.com/profile/08351139178570366468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-69766646653686035072007-09-22T00:41:00.000-05:002007-09-22T00:41:00.000-05:00As much as I respect Ixquic's input, you will noti...As much as I respect Ixquic's input, you will notice that her focus is on an abstract concept of justice that must be delivered through some sort of "environmental judge."<BR/><BR/>Good luck with <I>that</I>.<BR/><BR/>The focus in E.S. is not on the sanctity of property. If the focus were on the fact that some people's property has been devalued by the negligent actions of others, then we would be on our way to try and redress that wrong by <B>getting the injuring party to make whole the injured party</B>.<BR/><BR/><BR/> - * -<BR/><BR/><BR/>The salvadorean State is largely a failed state because the judicial system does not work. Like Ixquic says, it is trapped in time. I'll add that it is trapped in the wrong mindset.El-Visitadorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08823897085882597971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-44008147911212660462007-09-21T23:36:00.000-05:002007-09-21T23:36:00.000-05:00Tim: El Salvador has a system to repair of damages...Tim: <BR/><BR/>El Salvador has a system to repair of damages. (at least, in the paper) Our problem is not of laws, is of approach, priorities and bureaucracy and weakness of justice.<BR/><BR/>1.The environment law establishes the environmental judge, its competition: to know and to judge acts that have civil responsibility derived from acts that attempt against environment (...). If these judges were working, the mother could interpose the denunciation here. <BR/><BR/>The law is 9 years old and there is no judge. For that reason, the only way is to use the civil judgment of damages (at the ordinary way), that has centuries of use, is not oral and very, very, very, slow. There it has to prove that there is lead in the body, and that is a nexus between the activity of factory and the contamination (the factory says that the place has lead, the factory it´s an other cuestion). In addition, you have to prove the damage (to quantify, to measure it) and the .... ups I dony know how to say it!. (lucro cesante y daño emergente). I swear to you, that the seen system of justice is dissapointing this way, seems a system catched in the time. Sure impossible it is not and it must be one more bet.<BR/>2. In case “Mc.” There was contract, were BIG interests of both parts, but also took some years in solving and, the offended one was not in death danger.<BR/><BR/>The problem is, ¿Can our judicial sistem be quick and efficient? can be in 25 years???ixquic*https://www.blogger.com/profile/08351139178570366468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-10467167340877331692007-09-21T16:04:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:04:00.000-05:00Wow, so thank god for record, their recycling poli...Wow, so thank god for record, their recycling policy is saving us all; if you close them we will all die.<BR/>Sounds like the words of Elias Saca, "think about the workers who would loose their hobs". "Keep poisoning those families because there is no better solution.<BR/>Tatally corporate state.<BR/>bunch of crap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-59381328058468818082007-09-21T15:44:00.000-05:002007-09-21T15:44:00.000-05:00Tim,I must defer to Ixquic and other legal eagles ...Tim,<BR/><BR/>I must defer to Ixquic and other legal eagles who might know the exact answer. I will list some facts:<BR/><BR/>1. We don't use a germanic common-law system, where law evolves from common use and common sense. Instead, we use the Roman-French system, where all laws are derived from the Legislature.<BR/><BR/>2. Our Courts are what I would call "legalistic" in that they go by whatever contracts were signed by the parties. When there is no written contract, one's rights are already weakened (but often still exist, because the Law says so. Still, good luck).<BR/><BR/>3. Hardly anyone sues for damages in E.S., unless such damages <I>were already spelled out in a contract</I>, so a judge merely has to implement whatever the contract already recites. This is because:<BR/><BR/>4. Civil courts are a veritable disaster. Plain inheritance lawsuits that take 25 years and are never solved because the parties die off or just elect to forget about the whole thing. Ordinary foreclosures that might take all of 2 weeks in the civilized world take 5 years. <B><I>Before such insensitivity to</B></I> time <B><I>(man's most valuable property), most Salvadoreans can't be bothered about suing anyone.</B></I>.<BR/><BR/>3. I hope I am wrong here, but I don't think our lawyers, and therefore our Judges or for that matter anyone else, are ever thaught that the sanctity of property is the paramount <I>raison d'être</I> of the whole legal realm. Your property over your life and your assets, of course. If there were consciousness of such a fact, then of course, <I>making whole</I> the victims of lead poisoning should be no major obstacle. And <I>making whole</I> would mean actual medical costs, remedial education costs, costs for pain and suffering, and loss of a lifetime of wages.El-Visitadorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08823897085882597971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-43575956099092600962007-09-21T11:04:00.000-05:002007-09-21T11:04:00.000-05:00E-V:I should know this, but I don't. Does El Sal...E-V:<BR/><BR/>I should know this, but I don't. Does El Salvador have a tort system that would allow the poisoned residents of El Sitio to sue Record for damages? After all, if that guy who owned the McDonald's franchise could sue McDonald's and get $24 million, why can't the mother of an affected child? (Forget the fact that the McDonald's suit was baseless).<BR/><BR/>TimTimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452039674856298357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-72281995874488815062007-09-21T09:18:00.000-05:002007-09-21T09:18:00.000-05:00This is a very sad story indeed.Consider: there ar...This is a very sad story indeed.<BR/><BR/>Consider: there are 300,000 car lead batteries discarded in El Salvador each year. Record pays cash for old batteries, so it is able to recycle 70% of these. <I>The rest end up thrown in creeks, or processed in backyard battery shops such as this one that <A HREF="http://www.ilmc.org/Basel%20Project/El%20Salvador/Project%20Reports/Spanish/m06_ANEXO3_NOTICIAS.pdf" REL="nofollow"> lead poisoned a whole family in Santa Ana</A></I>.<BR/><BR/>Should Record be closed so we throw 200,000 more batteries to our creeks and rivers? If not Record, <B>who will pick up the 200,000 discarded batts?</B><BR/><BR/>What Record needs is close supervision. Better yet, judicial enforcement for any damages caused to neighbors and employees. This isn't anything an old-fashioned 19th-century tort-based judicial system couldn't have taken care of.<BR/><BR/><BR/> - * -<BR/><BR/><BR/>This case shows that the naive lefty standard approach of opening up a new bureaucracy for each perceived problem is perfectly useless. <BR/><BR/>We've had a Ministry of Health for some 50 years now, but <B><I>no-one focuses on holding it accountable</B></I> because there are a dozen agencies that in fact, share responsibilities.<BR/><BR/>Since there are many bureacucracies "responsible" for this social catastrophe.... <B><I>no one bureaucracy is actually responsible</B></I>.<BR/><BR/>Instead of strengthening the existing institutions of State, the naive agenda has been to open up new centers of incompetence. Witness the result.El-Visitadorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08823897085882597971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-35811456638513868342007-09-20T16:44:00.000-05:002007-09-20T16:44:00.000-05:00The factory should not be closed, but the appropri...The factory should not be closed, but the appropriate govt. agencies should step in to enforce a better handling of the lead products to minimize the poisoning of lead in the environment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-26558532657096899772007-09-20T10:21:00.000-05:002007-09-20T10:21:00.000-05:00I'm a little confused and I think the PDDH is too....I'm a little confused and I think the PDDH is too. The PDDH should realize that if the Ministry of Environment, and Public Health, are not informing the public, they are not just "potentially complicit," but in fact are complicit.<BR/><BR/>If the article is citing sources correctly, then I'm afraid the PDDH is taking a less-than-active stance, much like the Ministries involved, in protecting the rights of people of El Salvador.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9177745.post-21139791292114501012007-09-20T06:44:00.000-05:002007-09-20T06:44:00.000-05:00This whole story is so old...Im amazed it is until...This whole story is so old...Im amazed it is until now people are complaining about it. Everyone at Sitio del Nino knew about the dumping of lead..since it's been going on for years. <BR/><BR/>I really doubt there is going to be a huge change.blahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09337691559109629292noreply@blogger.com